S1E6: What Does A Life of Personal Freedom Look Like?

SHOW TRANSCRIPT

Jennifer Cudmore (01:03)
Hey, welcome. Thanks for joining us everyone. This is Into the Depths podcast. I’m Jennifer and I have my cohost Rosalyn with me today. And we are going to talk about what it looks like to be in a life of bondage where we’re living small and safe versus what would it look like to live our best life and have more freedom, more personal freedom. So let me start off with our question and then we’ll move into our discussion.

Rosalynn Lasley (01:11)
Hi everybody.

Jennifer Cudmore (01:30)
How do I know if I’m settling for a small safe life? Where am I trapped in baggage or bondage and don’t recognize it, which is one of the things that we’ve talked about before is how we have blind spots and things hide from us. And then what would it look like if I had more freedom in my life, more personal freedom? What personally?

would that look like in my day-to-day activities or my household or my family? So that’s what we’re going to discuss today. So Rosalyn, I’m going to pose the question to you to start us off. What does it look like for you to live your best life? What would that look like for you and how could you describe living a life of freedom for you personally now?

Rosalynn Lasley (02:13)
Gosh, so I feel like I’m still kind of in the midst of figuring that out. I think for me, if I was to think of all the strongholds that I find myself stuck in and shaking those free, would be a life where I’m not as concerned about what other people think, that I’m willing to live boldly and set big goals and to just kind of be unashamed.

to be who I am and I feel like I’m at a work in progress right now that’s not something that I’ve overcome quite yet. But the thought of not caring and not thinking so much about how other people may or may not be thinking about what’s going on in my life is pretty exciting. And I never thought that that would even be a reality for me.

Jennifer Cudmore (03:01)
Yeah, it is exciting when you allow yourself to start dreaming about how could life be better? How could life be different if I wasn’t weighed down like we talked about before running our race and being those hindrances that weigh us down. What could that look like? And even with me starting this podcast, I’ve had to deal with some insecurities resurfacing, just feeling inadequate in certain areas. And I’ve kind of shared some of that already, so I won’t go into it, but definitely.

Rosalynn Lasley (03:10)
you

Yeah.

Jennifer Cudmore (03:31)
you know, like I said before, we’re always becoming, so there’s always another step or another, you know, layer that we can uncover and get out from under. So I think sometimes it’s really difficult to picture what would life be like, you know, what would a better life be like for me? What could that possibly look like? And I think that it’s really important to set aside time to begin to dream about these things and really in…

Rosalynn Lasley (03:51)
huh.

Jennifer Cudmore (03:58)
In my case, sitting down and praying over it, Lord, I don’t even know what I want, but could you help me understand what are the desires of my heart and what would I want for myself and my family and how could I live a better life? So that, think, is the first step, is just making the time and the space to ponder, become aware, and seek out our blind spots, as we’ve talked about before, but then also thinking ahead of what do I want my future to look like?

what is within my control of how to get there. So let’s go through. Okay, so I love how you mentioned a stronghold because I did want to bring that up. Stronghold is a word from the Bible. So some people don’t know that word. And really, it’s just hindrances. And the Bible also references us being slaves or being held captive or being in a pit.

what helps me is when I have a visual. what I like to tell people is it’s like your life is this great big huge knot or like this really terrible ball of yarn that it feels like you just want to throw it away because there’s no way you would get it untangled.

So I think it’s easy for people to picture, you know, a necklace chain that got all tangled up or you know, a piece of string that’s in a knot

Rosalynn Lasley (05:13)
Yeah.

Jennifer Cudmore (05:16)
So that’s just a visual to help us get started. We don’t want to live life that way. We don’t want to be tied up with these things. We want all those knots untangled so that we can live our best life and be the best version of ourselves. So

Rosalynn Lasley (05:29)
when you were talking about the knots and even just untangling a necklace, I was thinking of how carefully you have to untangle a necklace because otherwise you’re going to break it. And so like sometimes it’s hard to even know where to start and how do you start pulling things away without completely breaking, you know? And so, I don’t know, which is kind of an interesting analogy as you were talking.

Jennifer Cudmore (05:36)
Yes, true.

Yeah.

That’s

a great point that I hadn’t pondered before, but yeah, some of these things are delicate issues that you can’t just rip it apart or cut it apart. Like you need to take the time to untangle it and be careful and be gentle and begin to dissect it and pull it apart. And if you don’t do it in the right order, then you just make it worse too. And that’s something that I think is important. So.

Rosalynn Lasley (06:12)
Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Cudmore (06:15)
One thing that was huge for me, I’m just gonna start listing all the stuff I’ve struggled with, is I used to be really easily offended. Everything would upset me, everything would irritate me. I was super opinionated, but I wasn’t vocal about it. And this is one thing that I wanna be clear out is that.

Rosalynn Lasley (06:22)
Yeah.

Jennifer Cudmore (06:35)
you can be easily offended and people don’t even know because you’re keeping it all inside or it really it’s just all in your head. And that was more of what I used to do unless I would be like complaining to some of my friends or my family. Most of the time I was quiet about it. It was all in my head. But this is when you have thoughts like I can’t believe so-and-so behaved a certain way or I can’t believe so-and-so did that to me or you know, it really comes from a place of

viewpoint of there’s only one right way to do things and everyone else needs to fit in to my way of doing things it’s ridiculous it really is but it’s so easy for people to get stuck in that mindset and they don’t recognize that they are trying to make everybody else fit into their box of what should or shouldn’t be so got any thoughts on that

Rosalynn Lasley (07:25)
I was just thinking like for me, know, I guess three years ago now before we ended up here on the East Coast, 907 moms, which was like a mops kind of mom group at our church was going through, I think it’s draw the circle, but it’s like 40 days of prayer

And at that point, I was in a place in my life where I was struggling with severe anxiety and depression and I felt pretty helpless. I found myself, like I wanted to participate, but I didn’t even know what I needed, let alone what I wanted. And so I was like, well, I want to participate in this. And I know that there’s gotta be something good that comes from 40 days of prayer, but I couldn’t even think like, Lord, what do I want to pray? What do I want in my life? I have no idea other than.

to just get through today. I was at the place where my only goal in life was to get to the next day. And my mindset was constantly negative. I felt like my situation was helpless. I made kind of a mess of some things in my life and I didn’t know how to even pray for what I would want, let alone get to that place. And so at that point in my life, I prayed for healing. said, Lord, I just need healing. And I even know what that looked like.

Jennifer Cudmore (08:38)
Mm-hmm.

Rosalynn Lasley (08:44)
physical, mental, emotional, spiritual, I didn’t even know. just, it’s like those guttural prayers where like, I don’t even know what to pray anymore. So I prayed for healing and had no idea that it would lead me here. And so we can dive in more to that, but you know, I can identify with being in that place where everything feels broken and upended and I guess in some ways hopeless and

It’s truly not, but when you are so tied up in the negative things, you can’t see beyond it.

Jennifer Cudmore (09:20)
Yeah, absolutely. It’s so easy to get like, we have this, what are those things that you can put on a horse that keeps them from, yeah. And so we need to be able to pull that back so that we can see the full, you know, the full perspective. So I think another thing that I struggled with was self-pity. Like, I don’t deserve this.

Rosalynn Lasley (09:29)
Blinder.

Jennifer Cudmore (09:49)
whether it’s general like this lot in life, you I didn’t deserve what I was handed. But then also being, you know, I didn’t deserve the way certain people treated me, but instead of from a perspective of anger, it was from a perspective of poor me. And then along with that feeling stuck, like, well, I’m not even gonna try to fix my situation because woe is me, you know, it won’t work. So that’s a mindset that gets us stuck.

Rosalynn Lasley (09:52)
Yeah.

Yeah. And when you’re stuck in this place

of like insecurities and low self-esteem and you know, there are times where the situation that people are in is very real and very difficult and does feel like beyond coming out of that. Like it would be a natural thing to think, you know, woe is me. But if that’s the only thought you ever have, you’re never going to get beyond it and you’re going to just be stuck in this miserable place because your mindset.

Jennifer Cudmore (10:20)
Mm-hmm.

Rosalynn Lasley (10:43)
plays such a huge part in your circumstances.

Jennifer Cudmore (10:49)
For sure. And it’s one thing to have a moment of feeling sorry for yourself. And what I’m talking about is like a lifestyle of feeling sorry for yourself a lot, where you’re really held down by self pity, but you don’t recognize it. And what makes it worse is when you really do have valid circumstances that could affect your mood like that. But to stay down in that spot is really a place of, it’s a trap down there. You know, we can get stuck in that.

Rosalynn Lasley (10:53)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Jennifer Cudmore (11:19)
that can hinder us and hold us back. So along with that, I feel like some of these things kind of worked together, but I think the victim mentality is something that a lot of us struggle with too in feeling like it’s everybody else’s fault. And we refuse to take ownership of the part that we played or the areas where we were wrong.

Technically I didn’t sin or I didn’t do anything wrong. I might have said that in a snotty way, but they deserved it. And so we can really rationalize why it’s not our fault, why it’s everyone else’s fault and we’re the victim. And I think a lot of these mindsets are so difficult to spot. If you would have asked me, know, 15, 20 years ago,

If I was living with the victim mindset, I would have said, no way, you know, I take ownership of my mistakes. But now looking back, I recognize what it looked like in my day to day life and how I was playing the victim a bit too much.

Rosalynn Lasley (12:21)
Yeah, and I think there’s times where if somebody else was to identify that and kind of try and hold me accountable for it, I wouldn’t have been receptive because my mindset was so skewed and so just kind of dark because of what was going on that I don’t think I could have received somebody saying, you have a victim mindset. And I’d be like, yeah, of course I do. Like, how could you not? You know, but in the end, that’s not where you want to live. Is that how you want to be forever?

Jennifer Cudmore (12:45)
That’s true.

Rosalynn Lasley (12:50)
or do you want to pick yourself up and say, okay, yeah, this situation or these big circumstances or this season of life, if it’s long-term, yeah, it is pretty, pretty terrible, but I don’t want to, I want to be victorious. I don’t want to be the victim.

Jennifer Cudmore (13:04)
Absolutely, absolutely.

I think another thing is that we don’t always recognize how selfish we can be. I think that we have a lot of selfish desires and that comes out in a lot of different ways and we don’t always recognize that we are trying to force other people to do it our way out of selfish ambition versus when we really to live our best life, we want to put others first, right? And that’s also

scriptural, know, the Bible does tell us to put others first, but it’s really easy to fall into trying to always do it our way. So rather than what’s best for everybody else, you know, we tend to be a taker instead of a giver. I think that’s a really easy trap to fall into as well.

Rosalynn Lasley (13:55)
Yeah, absolutely. I think we can also be in some ways delusional on what that looks like. You know, we can think that our motives are good and or you know that we are giving more than we actually are or that we’re right in the way that our perspective is.

affecting the different relationships and the selfishness that we have like it may seem legitimate but if we’re willing to like be honest with ourselves and take a deeper look at what’s going on we can identify like no actually I was being selfish in this way what did I have you know to contribute to this versus

you know, just being a taker. Like, is this all about what I have to gain or am I really contributing in a way that’s fair and reasonable and healthy? Because we can also be the opposite side. We can be like a doormat and We can be such a giver that we are taken advantage of too.

Jennifer Cudmore (14:54)
Yeah, and that is another thing that I had on my list is our insecurities, but specifically around being a people pleaser because we want people to like us. We don’t want them to be mad at us. I mean, there are a few people in my circles who say sorry all the time and they apologize. And I have to pause and go like, I don’t know why you’re…

Apologizing to me, I didn’t recognize that you did anything wrong. But it’s like this compulsion that they have to say they’re sorry because they want to make sure everything’s okay. They wanna make sure that there’s no tension or there’s no, or they don’t wanna rock the boat. And so walking on eggshells, because you don’t wanna upset anybody and you want to avoid conflict is…

Rosalynn Lasley (15:26)
Yeah.

Jennifer Cudmore (15:41)
really just keeping you in bondage. It’s making you live small and it doesn’t serve you. It doesn’t help you at all.

Rosalynn Lasley (15:50)
Yeah, it’s equally unhealthy. There’s got to be a balance of finding a middle ground of being selfless and giving while also having boundaries and identifying your own needs in a healthy way as well.

Jennifer Cudmore (15:55)
Mm-hmm.

Exactly, and getting the needs met in the proper way. And that makes me think also just the quality of our relationships. think sometimes we don’t realize that we’re in a talk that we have toxic friendships or that we need to set boundaries with family members or different things. We don’t recognize that it’s draining or depleting us, or we don’t recognize that we are being a doormat, as you had mentioned before. So think that

Rosalynn Lasley (16:09)
Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Cudmore (16:34)
taking a step back and really kind of evaluating our relationships and saying, okay, are these healthy? And that could be marriage, that could be with your kids, could be with your parents or your siblings or just different people that you work with. I think it’s really important to every now and then just sit back and go, okay, am I contributing to a problem in this relationship? Am I only friends with this person because they meet a need in me because I’m desperate for attention or whatever?

or am I only their friend because of what I can gain

it’s easy to have relationships just based out of our own interest or because somebody, they meet a need in us. So I’ll give an example. I had a friend when I was younger who people kept telling me that she wasn’t a very good friend, that I was not a priority to her, that she would do things behind my back, but I couldn’t see it. I had a huge blind spot with her.

because she met a need in me that I thought she was one of my best friends because she gave me attention, you know, and she, there were times when I was a priority to her. And so I thought that was a good friendship because I had a wrong definition of what a good friendship should look like. And then later when some of the truths came out and I recognized, wow, I was holding onto this relationship that I really should have let go of because it really wasn’t.

Rosalynn Lasley (17:34)
Thank

Jennifer Cudmore (18:04)
healthy, but at the time I didn’t recognize it because I was so desperate to have a really good best friend, right? So that’s an example from my own life. Unhealthy relationships are a thing.

Rosalynn Lasley (18:13)
Yeah.

Jennifer Cudmore (18:15)
I think another huge one is that we can become obsessed with our weaknesses or past mistakes. I’d love to hear your thoughts on that.

Rosalynn Lasley (18:22)
Yeah,

ugh, feel like that is one that is a challenge for me because I feel like I strive for perfection because there is the people pleasing and then the root of feeling inadequate. And so when I do make a mistake, I feel like I dwell on it a lot more than I should because I’m like, I miss the mark. You know, people are gonna be upset with me or, you know, it’s just that.

Because I feel like I’m lacking in so many places that when I make a mistake, it’s just reinforcing all of these negative core beliefs of myself. And so, you know, the average person may make a mistake and they’re like, darn, and they learn from it and they move on. And then I’m over here just like rehashing it over and over and over and over and like, whoever I may have wronged or whatever this mistake may have caused, it was like very brief and it’s

done and gone, I’m still dwelling on it because I’m like, I just wish I could have gotten it right. And so I feel like when we put so much focus and emphasis on these mistakes, even once the outcome has been resolved, it’s causing us to continue to have these wounds reopened and letting that be our focal point versus continuing to grow and learn and, I don’t know, just become who it is that we’re wanting to be.

Jennifer Cudmore (19:44)
And I think also, so side note being, I do think this is a huge tactic of the enemy. think Satan, in order to hinder us and cause us trouble, he does bring up our past a lot. And then it’s our choice whether or not we’re gonna latch onto that and ruminate or not. But the idea of this word ruminate, I think is really important because it’s so easy to…

rehash situations and think, I wish I would have behaved differently or if I have this come up again or if I see that person again, here’s how I’m going to behave and we rehearse and we rehash and we ruminate. And that is such a waste of our energy because it doesn’t fix anything, right? It just either we’re venting and trying to get our point across or we’re berating ourselves that we didn’t do better. And so the whole concept of the past or our weaknesses and mistakes

There’s so many different facets of that where we can keep ourselves trapped and keep ourselves from moving forward because we’re just obsessed with it in different ways.

Rosalynn Lasley (20:44)
Yeah.

Jennifer Cudmore (20:44)
Also, another thing is how easy it is to complain and be negative. This was me hugely when I was younger and I even struggle with it a little bit now of always looking on the, not the dark side, what am I trying to say? Always looking at the negative instead of the positive. know, the glass half empty versus the glass half full. I still have that tendency to, my gosh, this isn’t gonna work out and.

think the worst or worry about the worst case scenario instead of trusting that everything’s gonna be okay or even if the worst does happen, I’m gonna be okay, right? I that negativity, criticism, complaining, those things, the more we focus on the bad, and we’ve said this before, the more we focus on that, the worse we make it and it makes us feel bad.

Rosalynn Lasley (21:24)
Yeah.

Yeah, and I think in some ways the complaints, especially if they’re vocalized, can be attention seeking because there’s something within us that is like, just need somebody to notice that I’m going through this difficult thing. I just need somebody to care that I’m trying really hard. I need somebody to notice my efforts or my talents or my skills. For example, a couple of weeks ago at work, there was a situation where I was

work much earlier than I normally would be and my boss had said something like, are you doing here so early? And I said, well, somebody’s got to be. And I was being sarcastic, but it did not come across that way. It came across as though I was a martyr. And so she had like a very real conversation with me and just said, you know, when you say stuff like that, it makes you come across as a martyr. And she was right because

Jennifer Cudmore (22:21)
Hmm.

Rosalynn Lasley (22:32)
you know, in saying somebody has to be, what I actually meant is I wanted somebody to notice that I had put in the effort and that I was going above and beyond and the reason that I was there early was to fulfill a need that there was at the office and instead of just, you know, I don’t know, I could have responded any of a number of different ways. I wanted somebody to care that I was there early and that I was putting in the extra effort to fulfill a need that was very real in the moment.

But instead I had this kind of poor me complex because yeah, I was there a lot earlier than I should have been. Yes I was filling in. Yes, somebody else should have been. But what did I have to gain from that? And if I’m gonna build myself a reputation of being a complainer, what value does that bring to me or to anybody else? And so I was glad that she had an honest conversation with me that, you know, it’s kind of a martyr complex

why do I want them to notice? Is it because it actually matters or is it because I’m feeling inadequate and insecure and I just need somebody to care about the efforts that I’m given?

Jennifer Cudmore (23:33)
Yeah, that reminds me of a situation I had at work last week where I was also seeking validation. so every couple of months, I like to send an email to the team, just what I would call inspirational. Sometimes I try to be funny and just send silly memes, or sometimes it’s just like a quote that I hope will encourage and build them up. I had sent something last week.

with a few memes that I thought were funny and I thought for sure I was going to get a lot of responses. that was funny. Thank you for sending it. And I think I included probably 20 different people on the staff at the clinic and I got one person to respond and my immediate reaction was

They not laughing. Why are they not saying thank you? You know, I, was like, I needed them to say, to acknowledge that I had done a good thing by sending that funny email and I had to catch myself like, no, that’s not who I am anymore. I don’t need that. And I secure in myself that just because I only got one response out of 20 that I don’t need to take that personally. There’s nothing wrong with me because only one person responded. In fact, I didn’t even want.

Rosalynn Lasley (24:36)
Yeah.

Jennifer Cudmore (24:49)
20 responses because that would have been a waste of everyone’s day. We’ve got work to do, right? And so it’s so easy to get drawn into that internalizing, there’s something wrong with me if I don’t get a certain kind of response. And that can be a huge hindrance that can keep us from living our best life. Along with that, a huge one for me is performance orientation and being consumed with

Rosalynn Lasley (24:53)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Jennifer Cudmore (25:15)
If I don’t get kudos for a job well done, if I don’t come across as doing everything with excellence, then I’m not good enough or I feel like a failure or I can really internalize that. And I’m way better than I used to be, but I still struggle with that sometimes of, I didn’t get my reports turned into my boss as soon as I would have wanted. She could care less. But to me, because I didn’t meet my deadline, I can sometimes…

have that temptation to berate myself because I didn’t meet a certain deadline that I had decided not to. Right. or I mean, anyways, that that can just come up in so many different ways of needing to do super well at everything so that people will like me and then I can feel good about myself.

Rosalynn Lasley (25:52)
Yeah.

Yeah, I feel like I struggle with the same thing. And it’s one of those things where it’s the performance is indicative of being noticeable, like feeling like you matter and like what you contribute has value and that you’re not forgotten and overlooked and just kind of a dispensable, disposable person. Like you do matter and we’re still seeking that external validation.

And I feel like all of these things just kind of tie back into like, you know, we’re seeking approval from everywhere else except for the Lord.

Jennifer Cudmore (26:45)
Yeah, for sure. Another area that I think is a huge deal is fear. I see people who live small lives and while

I’m only going to have a couple friends because if I have a lot of friends, they could betray me or they could, I have a bigger chance of getting hurt. And so I’m, I’m perfectly fine. Just having a couple friends. don’t need anybody else. That’s fear based, but they don’t recognize it. Or, you know, as I’ve shared before, not being willing to try new things because what if I look foolish or what if it goes wrong and I fail?

Rosalynn Lasley (27:17)
fear is a big one. know, control is a result of fear. Fear of failure, fear of things going wrong, fear of being let down or letting people down. I think, you know, like you said, with keeping a limited amount of relationships or keeping surface relationships, we’re afraid to really be vulnerable and immerse ourselves in

Jennifer Cudmore (27:24)
Yes.

Rosalynn Lasley (27:45)
whether it’s professional or personal relationships because we don’t want people to hurt us or use things against us or see who we really are or see our worst components that we feel. If anybody else knew this about me, then the whole world would know that I’m a fraud or that I’m flawed or that sort of thing. So I think fear is probably one of the biggest issues that most people have. And I think it kind of…

Jennifer Cudmore (27:53)
Hmm.

Rosalynn Lasley (28:14)
ties it in with all of the other components of comparison and I don’t know, I think our lives are limited immensely because of fear.

Jennifer Cudmore (28:25)
I remember when I was younger, I wasn’t a super confident driver. so driving to new places could be intimidating for me, but there was a time where I wouldn’t even attend certain events because I was too afraid to drive in traffic or too afraid to try new roads or different things. And I had to really push through that.

you know, 35 years old to drive downtown Anchorage, like for real downtown Anchorage. How many streets are there down there? Right. So I was like, no, I’m not doing that. I’m not living that way. And so I started to force myself to go down there. And it started when I had to drive one of my kids down and I for the life, I don’t remember what it was for, but I was like, then I felt like I had a good reason to be brave, you know, because I was helping my kid. And that really was a huge wake up call for me of

Rosalynn Lasley (28:55)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Jennifer Cudmore (29:18)
wow, I am not this person. I don’t want to be that person who’s afraid of traffic. so knowing that one of the ways to overcome fear is to keep pushing through it. I started making myself in like, like we mentioned before going to Nashville, I was actually terrified to drive in Nashville when we went to that conference. And I was like, no, I am not going to let fear stop me. I’m going to choose to drive to the conference and push through it. And then I,

I was able to look back and be really proud of myself that I didn’t let that hold me back and I didn’t let that keep us from experiencing this trip and this conference. So anyhow, that’s just a personal example of that just made me fear the idea of things we’re afraid of so tangible to me and made me realize how much it’s really getting in the way of my life.

Rosalynn Lasley (30:10)
Yeah,

for me, I think one of my biggest fears is conflict. So because I struggle with insecurities and inadequacies and being afraid of people confirming that the worst possible things I could ever think about myself are true, I would avoid difficult conversations because the conflict could potentially lead to them validating all of these things that I’ve thought.

Jennifer Cudmore (30:15)
We are.

Rosalynn Lasley (30:37)
you know, about myself this whole time, you know, or, you know, I’m going to end up alone or I’m going to end up without friends or whatever it may be. So I would avoid any difficult conversation until it became either I would explode and then I reacted in a way that was really unhealthy or it would eat me up inside and I’m miserable because I’m like, well, I would rather just continue to ignore things that should be addressed as they come up.

because I’m afraid of the conflict and what can potentially happen if, you know, it becomes a big blow up. And so I’ve worked on that a lot and I’m getting better, but you know, early in marriage, I wouldn’t ever address things or I would think I would like, I’ll get over it, I’ll get over it, I’ll get over it. And then like one little thing would set me off. And then I’m like, we’re gonna have this fight about 50 things because I’ve been bottling it up forever instead of just dealing with it in a healthy way because you know, I wouldn’t want.

Jennifer Cudmore (31:09)
Mm-hmm.

Rosalynn Lasley (31:33)
to cause a conflict with my husband and I don’t want him to think I’m a terrible person so I’m just not gonna ever deal with anything and then I deal with everything all at once and it was not a healthy way to deal with things at all. But because I was afraid of conflict and I hadn’t seen it modeled for me in life what healthy conflict and like how to work through conflict in a healthy positive way looked like.

Jennifer Cudmore (31:45)
Yeah.

Mm-mm.

Rosalynn Lasley (31:58)
It was either like screaming and yelling and throwing things or silent treatment that I never learned what it was like to actually have difficult conversations in a productive way. So I just avoided them until I couldn’t anymore and like that was not serving either of us well.

Jennifer Cudmore (32:14)
Exactly. I really think most of us have no idea how to handle conflict. Well, I think that’s something that’s not taught super well. And, I, I definitely can fill you as far as that goes. I really cannot stand conflict and then moving into management, you have to learn how to handle that well, in order to lead your team well.

okay, just a few more really quick and then let’s move on to other things could be addiction or scarcity mindset or having no plan for personal development, like not even trying to figure out your weaknesses and flaws and how to overcome some of them or poor physical health. Like we’re not taking care of ourselves. We’re not eating well. We’re not getting exercise. Our bodies were made to move.

And so when we’re sitting around all the time or laying around all the time, that’s really bad for us. Or when we’re tired all the time, we can’t be our best selves. So what are we doing that’s contributing to us being tired all the time? So those are just a few other things. But I want to move on to just talk about what a life of freedom could look like and get people to start thinking and dreaming about that. one or two of these issues that we brought up,

may not necessarily be a big deal and may not be much of a hindrance, but when you have all of those things together in this knot, I mean, we went over probably what I would say 20 different things. And when you’ve got all those things tangled up, they’re working against you. That’s a life of bondage. That’s letting your baggage hold you back. That’s living under the weight, right? No wonder we’re not happy. No wonder we’re not enjoying our lives, right? Because we have all these things, but these are things that we have control over.

that if we would learn to deal with and learn the skills and then we could overcome those and then move into the better quality of life that we’ve always wanted. We can make our life more beautiful if we stop living under these conditions and choose to work through them and get to this other place. So, you we’re making our life harder on ourselves by staying stuck in these cycles. So what does freedom look like?

And this, think, takes some practice visualizing, like we kind of said. But what does a beautiful life look like for me? And I think the first thing that comes to mind when I think of personal freedom and a good quality of life is I think of internal peace and contentment. Like, I don’t want drama in my life. I want to be able to come home and have my home be a sanctuary. And I want to be able to be level-headed in the midst of circumstances that are less than ideal, right?

Rosalynn Lasley (34:33)
Yeah.

Jennifer Cudmore (34:46)
What are your thoughts?

Rosalynn Lasley (34:47)
Yeah,

I just can think of this in a very practical and real way. So, you know, when I was struggling with complaining a lot, I would often rant on Facebook about it and what good did that serve? There was no good that came of it other than I just wanted somebody to know and to care that I was struggling, but I didn’t know how to go about.

Jennifer Cudmore (35:00)
Mm-hmm.

Rosalynn Lasley (35:10)
like seeking those conversations in a healthy way for somebody to say, hey, I’ve noticed that you’re struggling. Hey, let’s talk about this. Hey, let’s pray about it. Let’s find tools to overcome these things that feel unovercomeable. And so for me, it seems so crazy to think, I can remember exactly where I was when I had prayed for healing. It’s gonna make me cry. But I had never imagined that it would lead me here. And I didn’t even think healing was possible.

Jennifer Cudmore (35:32)
Yeah.

Rosalynn Lasley (35:38)
And I didn’t even realize what all that entailed when I prayed for healing. And there’s more to my story than I’ve shared here, and we can get into it at another time, but I’ve been through some physically difficult things in my life, and so I think when I visualized praying for healing, was relief from pain and relief from the mental suffering I was going through and relief from the demands of the job that I was in that was eating me alive.

it did not feel possible to get out of that place. Like I felt very stuck. And so I prayed for healing for 40 days and I ended up in Virginia and I’m like, this is not what I had in mind at all. But you know, I started finding healing in my physical health and finding healing in my mental health and finding healing in my relationships and finding healing in my willingness to be bold and brave and do hard things like.

driving across the country with three kids and two dogs and a husband, having no plan whatsoever. Like, we’ll get there when we get there and I have no idea what that looks like. I don’t even have a map. We’re just getting in the car and we’re gonna wing it. But it took being in a place that I was so uncomfortable that I couldn’t stand being in it one more minute for real change to happen. And so now when those Facebook memories come up and I see those rants and complaints, it’s for some…

places I get embarrassed, but I don’t even remember who I was. I look at that and I think, can’t even, like I don’t even think like that anymore. So to see that this is how I felt and this is what I thought and this is what I was going through and this was almost my routine was to hop on Facebook and complain about something. I don’t even recognize myself anymore. And that’s how I know that I’ve begun a real journey of healing because who I was and who I am or not.

at all the same and not that I’m in a place where I’ve got it all figured out and that I don’t have a long way to go and that I don’t still have very real things that I actively need and want to work on, but I’ve come so far.

Jennifer Cudmore (37:48)
I can relate so much and we have similar stories as far as moving across the country. mean, driving from Alaska to the East Coast was huge. definitely those are some stories we could go into at some point and all the things that we learned and all the challenges we overcame.

Rosalynn Lasley (37:55)
Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Cudmore (38:07)
And being over here on the East Coast has definitely, I can look back and see the difference in myself and the growth from that experience. So.

Rosalynn Lasley (38:18)
Yeah.

Jennifer Cudmore (38:21)
So another thing that when I think of what freedom can look like, I think of like a happy household or like just a family where there’s a lot of laughter. think of happy memories, think of healthy relationships where it’s not out of codependency or needing validation, but out of true, like a proper balance of that give and take of that back and forth love, unconditional love in…

Rosalynn Lasley (38:29)
Yeah.

and

Jennifer Cudmore (38:49)
in relationships and for me learning to not get so easily offended. mean, that’s been huge. I mean, the Bible talks about being slow to anger, quick to listen, slow to speak, quick to forgive. And so for me, a life of freedom has been learning to let things go, not get upset so quickly and don’t take things personal when people say things or do things and

Rosalynn Lasley (38:59)
you

Jennifer Cudmore (39:18)
don’t internalize that as if there’s something wrong with me and that they treated me that way. But it just is what it is. It speaks more about them than it does me, right?

Rosalynn Lasley (39:26)
Yeah,

and if it’s one of those things that you don’t have the capacity to let it go, like being willing to have a healthy, difficult conversation to get to the root of like, listen, I was really hurt by this thing. Is it something that I can’t let go of and do need to talk through being willing to do it instead of letting it just build and cause you to be resentful all the time? You know, and just in this for me, praying for healing changed everything for myself and my family. And

Jennifer Cudmore (39:34)
Mm-hmm.

Rosalynn Lasley (39:56)
Not that it’s perfect by any means, but it’s been beautiful and I never would have even considered this without getting to a place that I was uncomfortable enough that I was ready to make a change and to identify that there was a need for it.

Jennifer Cudmore (40:15)
Yeah, I think another huge difference is no more shame and condemnation. Like I can talk nice to myself. I’m not as tempted to be hard on myself. I can give myself more grace. have, like I can recognize the growth.

And my self-worth no longer being attached to performance. Maybe I can’t really say no longer because I still do struggle with it, but that’s my goal. One of my huge goals right now is to really be able to get to the place where

I’m not threatened by the success of others and if I don’t do things perfectly, I’m still okay with myself. I don’t need to condemn and berate myself, but I’m okay if I’m not having a perfect performance.

Rosalynn Lasley (41:01)
Being willing to try has been huge for me. Being okay with it being uncomfortable. One of the things that I kind of repeat to myself is that being uncomfortable is temporary.

Jennifer Cudmore (41:16)
Yeah.

Rosalynn Lasley (41:16)
but also

being willing to pick what do I want to be uncomfortable with? Do I want to be uncomfortable with doing something new, knowing that there is an option and the alternative is to stay in the place that I am that’s familiar but unhappy? Or am I willing to be bold and brave and be uncomfortable temporarily for something that is new and exciting and beneficial and a place of growth for me because there’s so much on the other side of being willing to be brave, even if it’s just for a little while.

Jennifer Cudmore (41:46)
when we talk more about fear and courage later, I think it’ll be fun to unpack that because there’s so much wrapped up in the concept of fear versus choosing to be brave and uncomfortable, yeah.

Rosalynn Lasley (42:00)
Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Cudmore (42:01)
one thing that I’m really working on is learning positive coping techniques when I’m disappointed with something. Even small disappointments, you know, instead of turning to social media or turning to sugar or whatever your current negative coping mechanism is, learning proper stress management, healthy ways of dealing with uncomfortable negative emotions and

Rosalynn Lasley (42:20)
Yeah.

Jennifer Cudmore (42:28)
getting to the place where we don’t cause ourselves more problem, but we’re dealing with it in a healthy manner so that we can let go and move on, right?

Rosalynn Lasley (42:40)
Yeah, for me, like I said, I just reminded myself that being uncomfortable is temporary. Like this uncomfortable feeling, this disappointment, this embarrassment, this shame, I guess, even it’s temporary. I’m not going to feel this way forever. So it is okay to feel it while I feel it and know that this feeling will pass.

Jennifer Cudmore (42:42)
Also, I think.

Another thing too, I think, is that we have fewer triggers. I was thinking about how so many things used to set me off in feeling insecure or having negative emotions. And now those things can happen and they don’t bother me quite as much anymore. And I look forward to getting to the place where I have no more triggers. Hopefully that’s possible. you know, where things don’t upset me and I don’t…

Rosalynn Lasley (43:24)
Yeah.

Jennifer Cudmore (43:29)
spiral into negative thought patterns or whatever. But I think most importantly, we get out from under the limitation or the ceiling that comes from lies, limitations and labels.

and learning to cut those off and not live under the weight of those anymore is so freeing. It just feels so liberating to be able to move in a life where there’s so few expectations

So as we go about our week, let’s explore the depths of this final thought. Where am I living? Am I on the side of freedom where I’m living my best life? I’m the best version of myself. I’m enjoying life. I’m happy. I have contentment and peace. Or am I more living a safe, small life where I’m trapped in bondage and baggage and lots of negativity that’s holding me back and keeping me from enjoying life? And

wherever we fall, where can we recognize areas that we need to begin to untangle? And what would that look like? As I untangle those, what would living my best life look like? And it’s gonna look a little different for all of us. So this is where we need to take some time and really spend, know, really think it through and have some reflection and self-awareness around what do I want and where do I want to end up as I move forward. So.

Those are the things we want to leave you with for today. Thanks for joining us and we will talk to you next time on our next episode of Into the Depths. Thank you. Bye everybody.

Rosalynn Lasley (45:02)
Yes, thank you.

Bye.