E62 The Growth You Didn’t Ask For: Faith For The ‘In-Between’ When God Changes the Season

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:

Jen Cudmore (00:00)
Change is a dirty word, isn’t it? One constant thing about life that you can always count on is that change will happen, it’s inevitable. And most of us don’t really like change because it challenges us. So oftentimes we label as scary or hard or bad, and then we make it become that. So today we are gonna explore the idea that change is actually good for us. So join Rosalynn and I as we talk about transitions in life, and discomfort in the unknown. Let’s dive in.

Welcome to Into the Depths podcast. I’m Jennifer, the host, and I’ve got my friend with me again today, Roslyn. So this is the podcast where we go below the surface. We talk about all sorts of things. And today, what’s been on my mind lately is the concept of transition or change and how life is just full of all sorts of like constant movement. Like nothing stays the same, really, right?

Rosalynn Lasley (01:18)
guys.

It’s so true. Even when we think we’re in a stable place, there’s little changes happening behind the scenes.

Jen Cudmore (01:43)
So kind of what got me thinking about this is over the last couple of months, we’ve had a little bit of staff transition at the clinic where I work right now. And, you know, one person leaving isn’t such a big deal. You know, there were some health issues involved and another person who is married to someone in the military.

you know, they’re getting stationed in a new place. So obviously she’s going with, right? She’s moving. And then another person ended up getting offered a job. And so it was like, my goodness, in the span of two months, you know, we lost ⁓ four people back to back and we were feeling like, my goodness, cause we had already talked about hiring an additional person. So it was like, now we’re like feeling like.

We’re kind of down five people. We’re trying to juggle things, move things around, and we’re a rather small clinic. So hiring multiple people at the same time is not an easy task, right? So.

Rosalynn Lasley (02:32)
Yeah. Now,

I think even just hiring one person can be very daunting. So starting from scratch essentially is could have the potential to be very overwhelming.

Jen Cudmore (02:43)
Very overwhelming exactly. And so I’ve been trying to be super supportive. It was only one person from my department, but there was another department that had a lot of loss. so anyhow, change has been on my mind just because of that. And I had mentioned I was trying to like cheer up my boss because she was feeling a little bit pressured, right? A little overwhelmed. And I sent her this funny meme that I found. said, ⁓ life is like underwear. Change is good.

Rosalynn Lasley (03:00)
Thank you.

Yeah. ⁓

Jen Cudmore (03:08)
And I laughed so hard when I saw that and I was like, ⁓

I’m going to send this to her and make her laugh a little bit. But it really got me kind of thinking too, like, even though that’s very funny, it’s super true. Like change is actually good for us. And sometimes it doesn’t feel like it. ⁓ And it’s not that there isn’t negative change. That’s not what that I mean to say, but I just mean in general, change is good for us. And so that’s the topic we want to dive in today. So.

Rosalynn Lasley (03:17)
Right.

Yeah.

Jen Cudmore (03:37)
My first question that I wanted to discuss is just the idea of like, why do we tend to think that change is bad? Why do we tend to label it as bad? What are your thoughts on that to get us started Rosalind?

Rosalynn Lasley (03:48)
I think because it’s uncomfortable and so discomfort is typically a negative thing and so depending on how drastic the change can be that really impacts the level of discomfort and so sometimes it’s really hard to embrace those huge drastic changes when you’re like this is going to be uncomfortable for a while.

Jen Cudmore (03:51)
Mm-hmm.

we prefer to be comfortable, right? Nobody likes to be uncomfortable. we, so we will in general, it’s like human nature to shy away from that, right? Like we will resist ⁓ when it’s actually better for us to learn to lean into that and to try to move with it instead of move away from it.

Rosalynn Lasley (04:20)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, I had a conversation this week actually with one of my employees. The firm where I work, they have what’s called a mentoring program. so initially for like the more professional staff instead of the admin team where I am, the professional staff will have a liaison assigned to them for the first two years. And so it’s kind of something that helps you get your feet wet, is your first point of contact with little questions and just.

to kind of build a relationship that kind of sets the foundation for your time at the firm. And then after your two years, then you’re eligible to be in the mentoring program. And so I proposed a change for the admin team, because we don’t have a liaison program. Like could the admin join sooner so that way they can get more connected in multiple areas of the firm. And so one of our newest employees was on the fence about whether or not to join because she’s somewhat introverted and

She doesn’t know, you know, very many people at the firm and it’s a large firm. There’s about a hundred of us. And so, you know, it’s super uncomfortable to figure out like who do I want to mentor? How do I know I can trust them? What kind of things do I talk to them about? Or if I’m feeling unconfident, like is this gonna backfire when I disclose like, hey, I feel like I don’t know my job as well as I’d like to or whatever it may be. ⁓ And so in walking her through why I felt like it would benefit her to join the program,

she’s like, you know, this is really outside of my comfort zone. And I said, you know, growth happens in discomfort, ⁓ you know, and that’s like speaking to myself too, because I don’t want to lean into discomfort, but that’s where the growth really truly does happen. And I said, you know, I’m in the program, and it was a little bit uncomfortable or somewhat daunting to know which person should I pair with? Who would be a good support for me? Who would be a good personality match? But I’m so grateful that I’m a part of the program. It’s really impacted.

⁓ My relationships and my involvement at the firm in a positive way, I feel like I’m really satisfied in my position even more than I was previously because I have these additional connections and a different point person if I have, you know, if I’m having a tough day that I need to decompress with somebody. So all of that to say, you know, growth does happen in discomfort and none of us like it in the process, but on the other side of it, typically we’re proud of how far we’ve come.

Jen Cudmore (06:49)
I love that your job does that mentor program. I’ve heard of that in other places and I think that it’s brilliant. I would love to see that in more places.

So I was really kind of pondering this question thinking like, why do we tend to resist change? Like, why do we kind of pull back and shy away from it? And like for me, what is behind that? And I really came to the conclusion that the biggest issue is that change exposes our weaknesses and highlights our insecurities. Don’t you agree? that’s…

Rosalynn Lasley (07:16)
Yes, absolutely. I

can think of some of the biggest change seasons in my life and the root of the discomfort for me was insecurity ⁓ and feeling ill equipped for the next season I was going into.

Jen Cudmore (07:29)
Yep.

Exactly. There’s so much fear, ⁓ fear of just all different kinds of things. But then also there’s that loss of control where when things are familiar, we feel like we have some kind of control, which we’ve talked about before. Really, control is an illusion, but we feel like we have control. ⁓ So things like that are pretty big. And I think also like that concept of the unknown is really scary. ⁓ We like to know because it makes us feel more safe and secure, like

Rosalynn Lasley (07:41)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Right?

Jen Cudmore (08:03)
Right? It gives us something

Rosalynn Lasley (08:05)
Yeah.

Jen Cudmore (08:05)
to hold on to or gives us like, I guess we maybe feel grounded or something. So the unknown, because there’s so much that doesn’t make sense, we tend to struggle.

Rosalynn Lasley (08:19)
Yeah, and it’s interesting because, you know, so many times, you know, when there’s the transitions and there’s discomfort, there is discomfort that leads up to that. So, you know, one of the big things I can think of is when I left my job in Alaska, I was uncomfortable there. I was not happy there, but leaving was scary too. And so it was a matter of choosing what discomfort I wanted. Did I want the known discomfort?

Jen Cudmore (08:38)
Yep.

Rosalynn Lasley (08:43)
that was at least somewhat predictable, I knew what to expect, or did I want an unknown discomfort that could possibly be worse than what I’m already dealing with? And so it was really a mental battle of which discomfort is more palatable, you know, because both are uncomfortable. And years and years ago, I remember a preacher had shared a sermon about ⁓ Moses and asking the Pharaoh to let his people go.

And the sermon was basically like, more night with the frogs, where, you know, all these plagues keep getting worse. And Pharaoh’s like, let me think about it and come back to me. he just kept wanting to spend one more night with the frogs because that’s what was familiar. And so instead of us letting go, surrendering and embracing the change, we want to spend one more night with our frogs because that’s what’s familiar, even if it’s uncomfortable.

Jen Cudmore (09:19)
Yes.

Right, and I think a lot of times I hear people say things like, what if I make a wrong decision? I don’t wanna mess this up. I don’t wanna mess up my family or whatever. And I totally can relate to that to a point, but this one wasn’t quite as hard for me because I was like, who cares? If I make a mistake, God’s gonna redirect me. And I think a lot of us were so worried that we’re gonna screw up our life, but nothing is too big for God to fix. And so, ⁓

Rosalynn Lasley (09:39)
And then, yeah.

Right.

Right.

Jen Cudmore (10:01)
That really is not a valid question. What if I make a wrong decision? Right? mean, obviously we want to apply wisdom and discernment. We don’t want to just.

Rosalynn Lasley (10:06)
Yeah.

Sure.

Jen Cudmore (10:10)
willy-nilly do things. But at the same time, so what if you make a mistake? Like, so what if that decision wasn’t quite the right one, it wasn’t the way God was trying to lead you? He will redirect you. And so, and he doesn’t get upset unless you’re in outright rebellion, right? Like, I’m not going to listen to the Lord, which most of us are not like that. Most of us are like, sorry, God, I thought you said this way. And I, misunderstood it because

Rosalynn Lasley (10:23)
Right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Jen Cudmore (10:36)
The reality is we’re not always going to hear the Lord correctly. We are human. We’re going to make mistakes. We’re going to misunderstand something he said. And so I just wanted to debunk that ⁓ as we talk about change, like, so what if you make a wrong decision? I’m going to give you an example that was really stressing me out. When we moved to South Carolina, I stayed back behind in Alaska to

Rosalynn Lasley (10:44)
Yeah.

Jen Cudmore (10:56)
pack up and sell the house. My husband came down early to get situated in his job and find us a house. And so we kind of like tag teamed, you’re gonna do this half, I’m gonna do that half. And so.

Rosalynn Lasley (11:03)
Mm-hmm.

Jen Cudmore (11:08)
My husband chose a house ⁓ without me ever seeing it and I had to trust him but more importantly trust the Lord and we you know he looked at several houses he would send me all the information it wasn’t like I was totally excluded I was involved in discussions but for me it was like God I don’t know which house do we want which house which house are you directing us to which one which one and I finally just I had to just step back and say I I cannot make one more decision because you know we decision between

Rosalynn Lasley (11:22)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Jen Cudmore (11:38)
is like a major deal, especially when you’re moving. So

Rosalynn Lasley (11:40)
Yeah. Yes.

Jen Cudmore (11:42)
I was like, I just cannot hear the Lord in this. I’m gonna have to trust my husband and that God is directing my husband. And so several months later after we were moved in and getting settled and I was kind of reflecting with the Lord, like I’m so grateful for this house, Lord, thank you for getting us in the right place at the right time. ⁓ And I was just kind of feeling disappointed that…

Rosalynn Lasley (11:50)
Right.

Jen Cudmore (12:04)
I couldn’t hear him directly, correctly in that moment and feeling disappointed like I should have been able to understand his instructions on which house to buy. And he said, I knew.

He said something along the lines to me like, knew your brain could not handle one more decision. I made sure you got the right house. And to me, I was like, OK, like we could have made a mistake. I didn’t know exactly what God wanted, but he will come through for you. So let’s be less worried about making a wrong decision and more concerned with actually taking the steps forward.

Rosalynn Lasley (12:24)
Yeah.

Right.

Right.

Well, and for us, because we made a big move also from Alaska to Virginia, we didn’t have anything figured out. We didn’t have jobs. We didn’t have a home. We were planning to live with my dad and stepmom. It was literally like we were kind of winging it. ⁓ And we had people that we considered good friends say, you’re making a huge mistake. ⁓ You’ll never have it as good as you have it here. You’ll come crawling back in a few years. so

Jen Cudmore (12:59)
Yeah.

Rosalynn Lasley (13:06)
That’s kind of always been in the back of my mind, like, what if we did make a mistake and then somehow this person’s gonna throw it on our face later? But it’s foolish, like, it’s foolish to live my life in fear of somebody else’s opinion. And if we did make a wrong decision and in the end this was a terrible place for us to go and we hate it here and our family’s failing and all of those things, then okay, we’ll come crawling back. But if you were truly our friend, you think you would embrace us and comfort us and say, hey, God will get you back on the right track.

You know, but it’s one of those things where you’re living in fear, like you have your own concern of what if this is a mistake? And then you have these outside perspectives of, okay, so we’re already concerned about making a mistake. And then if we did make a mistake, have people are going to throw it in our face. It feels even heavier because we didn’t have anything figured out at all. so, yeah, it was crazy. It was crazy and scary and God made a way, but he really fully.

expected us to trust him and we had to because we didn’t have anything figured out on our own.

Jen Cudmore (14:07)
It’s so hard when you have well-meaning people who love you dearly trying to tell you something that’s actually not the Lord’s will. It’s tough.

I was just talking with a friend of mine a couple weeks ago. She was debating whether or not she was going to quit her job and do something different. And she was really seeking the Lord. And she went to multiple wise people and was like, here’s what I’m thinking. I need, you know, I want some guidance because you know, there’s a scripture. talks about how there’s wisdom in a multitude of counselors. Right. So it’s good to get perspectives from a few different people that, know, follow the Lord. But part of the problem is.

Rosalynn Lasley (14:34)
And

Jen Cudmore (14:43)
even well-meaning believers who love the Lord and love you can get it wrong. And they can advise you incorrectly. And so you’ve got to get to the place where you’re like, you’re okay not pleasing everybody, right? And you’re okay

Rosalynn Lasley (14:48)
that. And.

Jen Cudmore (14:57)
with having their, like not meeting their expectations and their opinions. And that can be tough. It can be really tough. you’re already, like you said,

you’re already dealing with all of your own emotions over the change itself and then you’ve got someone chirping in your ear that you’re doing it wrong. It can be really, really discouraging and yeah, so I get that.

Rosalynn Lasley (15:13)
Yeah.

And even as well-meaning as they may be, they can be taking their own perspective and their own experiences and framing it as the voice of the Lord, because maybe God is not directing them to move. God directed them where they are, but He is directing us to move. And so they’re looking at it from what God has spoken over their life and not as an individual. Like, hey, just because that’s where God’s leading you does not mean that He’s leading us there as well.

Jen Cudmore (15:33)
Yeah.

I agree and I also think that there’s a lot of believers who don’t take risks and don’t step out in faith as much as God would want them to. ⁓ And so I think in general there’s just a lot of well-meaning believers who are going to discourage you from taking a step of faith. ⁓ And that’s kind of disappointing but we also got to get to the place where we don’t hold it against them.

that they didn’t hear the Lord correctly on our behalf. So I don’t know.

Rosalynn Lasley (16:13)
Right?

I think there’s fear of

carelessness too, they’re wanting to make sure that we’re making wise decisions. Like, you’re moving somewhere, you don’t have a home, you don’t have jobs, like this is really dumb. But it was like, no, God was asking us to step out in faith and He carried us through it.

Jen Cudmore (16:24)
time.

Mm-hmm. And sometimes God is going to ask us to do stuff that looks foolish and we’ve got to be willing to do that for him, right? I think another aspect of like, why do we label change as bad is that there’s that also a lot of life transitions.

Rosalynn Lasley (16:35)
Yeah, yeah, true.

Jen Cudmore (16:47)
also affect our identity. And so what I mean by that is I think of like when you get married or like if you get divorced or like the emptiness season of life or like career changes, promotions, changing jobs, right? There’s so many normal life things that when you step into a new role, it’s a shift in your identity or really I think of it more of like,

Rosalynn Lasley (16:49)
and then.

Yeah.

Mm hmm.

Jen Cudmore (17:11)
rounding out your identity or like filling it out more

Rosalynn Lasley (17:14)
Yeah.

Jen Cudmore (17:15)
and so that can be a big deal too like if God is challenging you to something different something new ⁓ because he wants you to grow in a certain area ⁓ your identity is gonna have to fit the new season right

Rosalynn Lasley (17:30)
Right, for sure. And like for us with this big move, because that was probably one of the largest transitions in our lives so far, ⁓ I went from being at a job for almost 15 years and my husband almost 20 years to being the new person. And I was in a completely different career field or different industry, I should say. So my responsibilities at work were similar, but the field was entirely different. So the learning curve was vast. And so it felt like

Jen Cudmore (17:43)
Yes.

Rosalynn Lasley (17:58)
all of the learning you’ve done, all of the time you’ve put in is completely washed away and you’re starting from scratch as the useless new girl, you know? And that is really humbling ⁓ and having to ask for help and not be able to rely on yourself and everything that you’ve already known. ⁓ But at the same time, when I look back, I found myself being proud of how far I’ve come and how much I have learned and being willing to step out in faith and

Jen Cudmore (18:06)
Yeah.

It is.

Yep.

Rosalynn Lasley (18:28)
being able to use my experience and the way that God grew me and provided for me as a source of encouragement for other people ⁓ because like if I take a step back and I look at it independently, I’m like, holy cow, that was crazy. I cannot believe we did that. ⁓ But in a good way, like, wow, that was really brave. Wow, that was really bold. Wow, that was really trusting.

⁓ And I’m not who I was before I made those decisions, but I wouldn’t have had God not pushed me into this season of discomfort to provide me better circumstances on the other side.

Jen Cudmore (19:07)
I love that you brought up humility. I didn’t even think about that, but change is very humbling. And ⁓ that is one of the good things that can come out of change is that God, we do have to rely on him more or rely on other people more or take a step back. And ⁓ I think also there’s the temptation of… ⁓

Rosalynn Lasley (19:13)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Jen Cudmore (19:31)
with around the idea of identity in that feeling bad about ourselves or feeling not good enough or feeling, ⁓ you know, different things of that nature as you’re trying to shift into this new you type of thing.

Rosalynn Lasley (19:43)
Yeah.

Jen Cudmore (19:45)
I know for me, I’ve talked about this before, God had to push me into management at the clinic because I was not willing to budge. I knew that I would have to challenge myself to grow and learn new skills. And, you know, I didn’t want to be responsible for so many other people because what if I make a mistake? And so that’s another big part of change. And why we why we tend to label it as bad or hard or scary is that it forces us to do things differently, to become a better version of

ourselves or it invites us to be a better version of ourselves. We don’t always step into that, but ⁓ we have to, like I was saying, we have to shift our identity. But with that has to come personal growth and we have to lean into dealing with our baggage and dealing with our junk and getting rid of those old mindsets and choosing to heal and choosing to, you know, raise ourselves to the new level and not everyone’s willing to do that.

Rosalynn Lasley (20:18)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Right. And for me, it exposed definitely a ton of insecurities. And I felt like I was dealing with imposter syndrome because like, if you look at the descriptions of my jobs in both industries side by side, the responsibilities matched across the board. And I actually was having less responsibilities at the law firm than I did at the plumbing and heating company. But I felt like I wasn’t equipped, even though I knew that I was like, there was that fear of

Jen Cudmore (20:47)
Yes.

Rosalynn Lasley (21:08)
well, you’re just making yourself seem better than you actually are at this. You’re filling in these labels that don’t quite fit you. Like, okay, maybe I don’t know the computer program that they use, but I can manage the office. So ⁓ it just really highlighted all of the places where I needed to strip away the way that I was viewing myself and the identity that I have adopted as being less educated or those kinds of things. I had to really just face those and…

accept and truly genuinely believe ⁓ or at least preach it to myself until I did believe that I was enough, ⁓ even if it seemed like I wasn’t or I was afraid that I wasn’t at the time.

Jen Cudmore (21:49)
and I think that that’s why a lot of times God has to give us a push is because we’re just not ready or willing to take those steps to personal growth. And so he will allow things to get really difficult and uncomfortable at whatever that thing is so that we are willing to move. Or sometimes he just pulls it right out from under us, right? And just takes it away from us. And then we’ve got to go from there. ⁓

Rosalynn Lasley (22:11)
Yeah, absolutely.

Jen Cudmore (22:18)
I wanted to talk about just like the odd space or like that, that weirdness between what was and what’s coming, like that awkward in between transition time. I think for me or for a lot of people, like that’s the hardest part is not the change itself, but it’s like the shifting because it often takes time, right? You don’t suddenly go from the old to the new.

Rosalynn Lasley (22:27)
Thank

Yeah.

Right.

Right, and if you do, then it’s really not a change. If you’re going from old to new, but there is no real change that’s happening, I feel like it’s not a true change until you’ve experienced that kind of upheaval. Like if it’s same for same, it’s mirrored, then it may not necessarily be a change. But man, when you’re in that midst of that shift and you’re trying to

Jen Cudmore (22:58)
Yeah.

Rosalynn Lasley (23:07)
to gain your footing. It’s like, it reminds me being in the ocean when the waves come and then they recede and you’re like stumbling to keep your footing. In the end, you know that you’ll be on stable ground, but it’s that in between that seems kind of scary.

Jen Cudmore (23:20)
While things are still uncertain, while they’re getting settled, it’s like, my goodness. And that can be a few days, a few weeks, even a few months. So depending on what that thing is.

Rosalynn Lasley (23:30)
Mm-hmm.

Jen Cudmore (23:32)
because we’re going from what’s familiar to what’s unfamiliar. And in order for the new to become familiar, there’s that time, right? So you have to invest that time until the new becomes familiar. And so you’re in that in-between place of, well,

Rosalynn Lasley (23:42)
Mm-hmm.

Jen Cudmore (23:48)
I’m learning this. ⁓ I’m shifting. I don’t know all the things. And so it’s really uncomfortable, right? Even when it’s good. think this is so funny. Last night, Tim and I had a conversation with all the kids because we were like, hey, we think it’d be fun to take a family vacation to Europe. Do you guys want to come? And of course, they all said yes. And so we were having a little bit of discussion about what would that look like? Start talking logistics so that we can begin planning. My husband’s really, really good at setting up like ⁓

Rosalynn Lasley (23:56)
Yeah.

Okay.

Jen Cudmore (24:18)
He’s really my travel agent. tell people he’s really good.

Rosalynn Lasley (24:20)
Okay.

Jen Cudmore (24:22)
But anyhow, my point is, I went to bed last night thinking about, my gosh, Europe is so different from the United States and like, what about this and what about that? And I felt myself starting to get anxious. And then I was like, man, I don’t even know if I want to go to Europe. And I was like, how stupid is this that I’m letting like, I want to settle for what’s comfortable in my life right here in the States that I am starting to feel like I’m not willing to go check out something really

Rosalynn Lasley (24:35)
Okay.

Jen Cudmore (24:48)
really

cool as do a tour of the UK. Like what in the world? Because that’s unfamiliar, right? And because I don’t know, I’ve never been there. So it started to make me pull back and resist and not wanna go. And I was like, ⁓ I’m not falling for that. I’m definitely gonna push myself and be courageous and go.

Rosalynn Lasley (24:54)
Right.

Yeah. Well,

and sometimes I borrow somebody else’s courage. I think other people do this all the time. If other people can do this all the time, surely I can too. And you know, like where I grew up in Alaska, almost all of my friends, especially from the time I was little.

Jen Cudmore (25:12)
yeah.

So good.

Rosalynn Lasley (25:25)
through adulthood were military and so you think they move and make new friends and find a new home and learn new schools and new learn their way around town all the time. If people do this all the time for career for 20-30 years surely I can make a move once or twice in my life. and same with traveling to Europe. If people travel overseas all the time and they enjoy it and then they want to go back and then they want to see other places that they hadn’t seen.

Jen Cudmore (25:30)
That’s it.

I’m sorry.

Rosalynn Lasley (25:50)
Like surely I can figure it out and surely I can have a good time, but not knowing where I’m going, not knowing how to speak the language, not knowing if I’ll like the food, all of that, it does seem scary, but it could also be super awesome if you’re willing to be brave.

Jen Cudmore (26:03)
Yeah, it is definitely and you got to choose to focus on the good that’s coming that you know is out there and choose to trust in the Lord that this is going to be good for you instead of letting all the negativity and the enemy chirping in your ear trying to get you to pull back. So you just have to be aware of that. I think also like for people like me who my personality tends to like, I like to have a plan. I’ve got my calendar mapped out six weeks or

Rosalynn Lasley (26:10)
Mm-hmm.

Jen Cudmore (26:33)
Six months ahead like I’m I’m I I like structure. like organization I like order and so when I don’t have all the answers when I don’t have the roadmap in front of me or the Blueprint in place that makes that’s more scary for me. And I know some people Have similar personality to me where we want all the steps already spelled out and that’s not what transition like that’s not how your Transition works, right? You have

Rosalynn Lasley (26:56)
Yeah.

Jen Cudmore (26:58)
to just take one step at a time Like you were saying you guys move down here with zero plan and zero

answers. my gosh, at least I had a little bit of a plan and a few answers in place, but that is a tough one for me and I know a lot of people can relate. Like I just not knowing what’s next and having some kind of idea, it just makes you feel so insecure and unsafe, right?

Rosalynn Lasley (27:07)
Mm-hmm.

Well, and it wasn’t for lack of trying. You know, we had looked for jobs and housing and stuff like that ahead of time. And it was like, God kept shutting those doors. And so then you’re like, well, are we making a mistake? Maybe it isn’t his plan for us to be here. looking back over it, we took that whole summer. You know, we left the kids and I left in May and then I flew back up to Alaska and drove through Canada.

Jen Cudmore (27:23)
Right.

Rosalynn Lasley (27:43)
to meet up with my husband and then we drove down to get the kids in June, but we didn’t get to Virginia until the very end of June. We got here June 29th. And so had we had to rush, we would have missed some of the memories we made along the way. We didn’t go back to work until October, which is crazy. And again, it wasn’t for lack of trying, but had we gone back to work, mean, right away we would have missed the summer.

Jen Cudmore (27:52)
Hmm

Yeah.

Thank

Rosalynn Lasley (28:11)
with our kids. You know, we went to the pool pretty much every day. You know, we had the chance to finally just have some really deep rest and restoration and rejuvenation and got the chance to get to know the area a little bit. my husband would go outside and catch frogs and ⁓ fireflies with the kids and that kind of thing. And we would have missed that had we gone straight back into work. And those are the kinds of things that you don’t get back. Our kids will only be that age.

Jen Cudmore (28:11)
Yep.

Rosalynn Lasley (28:39)
this once in their lifetime. ⁓ And so he was really pushing to try and go back to work. And I was like, I think we just really need to fully embrace the time with the kids because we’re never going to get this time back. And we’ll probably never get to do this ever again. And now, you know, our oldest is a young adult. So again, they were never going to be that little ever again. So all of it to say, had we, we would have missed a really cool opportunity had we kept pushing.

and pushing and pushing for something that God didn’t have in store for us. He really wanted a deep season of rest for us and connection with our family. And I’m so thankful that we had that. Like I see my memories pop up on my phone ⁓ and like how much fun did we have? How great was it just being able to rest for the first time in our adult lives with nowhere to go except for the pool.

Jen Cudmore (29:31)
I love that you brought up.

not rushing because that is another area where I struggle is like God will be like, here’s a new thing we’re doing like with the podcast or learning how to be a coach. And I’ll be like, okay, let’s go. I struggle with feeling incomplete. Like I can’t settle down and rest until everything’s done. And God’s really been challenging me lately on ⁓ being okay with leaving things incomplete. And so yeah, my tendency would have been, I’m sure in your situation,

to rush back to work. I’ve got to get things done, you know, but a lot of times I’ve learned or I’m learning I should say that slow and steady is usually better. Like God usually works in the slow and steady and not the rush.

Not rushing, not the suddenlies, right? We’ll read in the Bible about suddenly this or that. And then we just get so excited about acceleration and like movement. But a lot of times God prefers us to take it slow. so transition, ⁓ because it’s slow, we don’t like it.

Rosalynn Lasley (30:16)
Right.

Okay.

Jen Cudmore (30:32)
It feels scary, unsafe, all the things we’ve said. But what if we were to lean in and embrace that like you did? Like, I just think you guys are a perfect example of what it means to not rush and not try to get through the discomfort as fast as you can, because that wasn’t the right thing to do for that situation. So.

Rosalynn Lasley (30:49)
Yeah.

Yeah. And

I mean, it was definitely a back and forth mentally, ⁓ but we just had to trust the process. And a friend long, long time ago had said, there’s joy in the journey. And it really was true. There was joy in the journey. And so we have some sweet, sweet memories with our family that we wouldn’t have had otherwise. So I’m thankful that God kept shutting those doors in order to allow us something that we would have totally missed had we tried to force our own way.

Jen Cudmore (31:20)
Yeah, that’s so good. So I was thinking also what I would love to do is just talk about like not just how.

transition and change and the unknown are like can be a problem but really hone in on like so okay so we’re always going to be going through some kind of change or transition whether big or small like what are some healthy things that we can do to make that smoother and we’ve kind of said already what some of those things are but i just kind of want to go through in in a little bit more depth i think staying grounded in prayer and constantly talking to god about all the things is so important

Right?

Rosalynn Lasley (31:58)
Right. Yeah. And I think ⁓ for me having that anxiety over these huge transitions and continuing to go to the Lord like this freaks me out. I’m scared. I need you to provide ⁓ in some ways that felt shameful because it was like, is my faith small? Am I not trusting him enough? Is he upset with me? How many times I’ve cried out in prayer because

Jen Cudmore (32:12)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Rosalynn Lasley (32:22)
I don’t know what to make of this next chapter of my life. But in the end, the best way that I can relate to my relationship with the Lord is the way that I feel as a parent. And that’s if my kids are afraid and uncertain and need reassurance, I want them to come to me over and over and over again. So if that’s how I feel, paling in comparison to the Lord, then surely he delights in those same conversations with me.

Jen Cudmore (32:25)
Yeah.

Yep. Yep.

Rosalynn Lasley (32:46)
He wants to scoop me up and comfort me. He wants to reassure me. He wants to remind me of all the ways that he’s come through for me. He wants to remind me of all the ways that my fears, while valid, are not going to come to fruition. But I have to let him, and the only way to do that is to keep talking to him.

Jen Cudmore (33:02)
and part of that being like, choosing to remember where he’s already been faithful, Remembering what are his promises? How has he come through for me in the past? Like, what has he already done? Because that…

Rosalynn Lasley (33:08)
Yeah.

Jen Cudmore (33:16)
Like we have to strengthen ourself in the Lord and like remember his faithfulness and choose to focus our minds on, like I said, the good, the promises, like who God is instead of what feels scary, what feels too big for us or whatever. Like really, we really have to work on that battle in our minds of not letting the emotions and the negativity get to us.

Rosalynn Lasley (33:33)
Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah,

and another thing that was really big for me was that godly wisdom and counsel from some trusted mentors and friends that are also believers because they’re looking at it from a biblical perspective. ⁓ Sometimes they can remind you of things that you have forgotten about God’s faithfulness, whether it’s a Bible story. Maybe you can’t relate to being trapped in a lion’s den, but you can identify the character of God in your life in those parables that are given to us, for example.

Jen Cudmore (33:50)
Mm-hmm.

video.

Rosalynn Lasley (34:10)
maybe your friends will remember like, remember that one time you were going through X, and Z and then we prayed this and then this is how it came to be? Like sometimes those friendships can remind you of the things that you have a hard time remembering or focusing on when you’re in the midst of this fight or flight because life feels scary.

Jen Cudmore (34:27)
another thing too is we will have a temptation to isolate because we feel, you know,

because we’re upset or whatever. And I think of like a great example in my life was when my sister moved away and she was, you know, one of my best friends ever. We did a lot of stuff together. So now I had holes in my schedule, right? Where I’m used to inviting her family to do birthday parties or, you know, different things. And so I had to learn how to rely on other people. I had to learn how to fill those holes in my schedule with something else instead of just pulling back and feeling sorry for myself that this was a new season. This was difficult.

Rosalynn Lasley (35:01)
Yeah.

Jen Cudmore (35:04)
my best friend’s gone. Well, I have other friends, right? And I have other,

Rosalynn Lasley (35:08)
Yeah.

Jen Cudmore (35:08)
you know, so learning to ⁓ shift, but be intentional about like, like I said, not, not falling into self pity and isolation, but leaning into other areas where people can help you.

Rosalynn Lasley (35:21)
Right, and I think that’s one that’s a big struggle for me. I very much isolate and internalize when I’m overwhelmed. And so it’s a huge conscious effort to not do that. And I still haven’t gotten super good at that, but yeah, it does help. I think of the time that I spend with people that love us, like,

Typically I enjoy it, I enjoy laughing, I enjoy the connection, enjoy the heart to hearts, I enjoy being able to share what’s on my mind rather than sitting there rummaging on it. But it takes the effort on my behalf to pull myself out and say, hey listen, sit with a friend and talk about what’s going on. Hey, talk to your husband, hey play with your kids, hey do something fun. Because the time’s gonna pass either way, but it’ll be a lot more comfortable if you pull yourself out of this dark cave.

Jen Cudmore (35:48)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, and I think another thing is just to be aware of the concept of fight.

What is it? Fight, flight or freeze. you’re going to have to take action. Like you can’t, you can’t let that panic take over when change happens, whether it’s slow change or fast change. Like you have to prepare as best as you know how. you’re not going to have all the answers, but what I do know I can prepare for. I can make the most of what I know right now. So instead of just kind of throwing up my hands and being like, my gosh, this wave is coming at me. I don’t know what to do. You know,

Rosalynn Lasley (36:38)
Yeah.

Jen Cudmore (36:38)
breath and be like, no, no, I, I, there’s certain things I can control, right? okay, well, I can’t control that over there, but here’s what I can do. I can take action here. I can prepare this way, right? And so doing something, even little steps is important to make the transition easier on yourself.

Rosalynn Lasley (36:50)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, absolutely.

Jen Cudmore (36:57)
Another thought that I had was around the idea of just making sure that you have self awareness, like understanding that you’re going to overthink things at time. You’re going to struggle with negative thinking. There’s nothing wrong with that. I love how you said like sometimes you feel bad, like I should have more faith. I shouldn’t be this worried about these changes. Like, no, no, no. Like we’re human. Like that is normal and you need to expect to feel emotional. You need to expect to have brain fog and, you know, ⁓ fear and whatnot. It’s a matter of not letting those things

Rosalynn Lasley (37:17)
Yeah.

Jen Cudmore (37:27)
overcome you. mean, giving yourself grace and understanding These things are going to come. I’m a big girl. I can handle it. I can move forward.

Rosalynn Lasley (37:29)
Yeah.

Right.

Well, and reminding yourself that you’re not doing it alone. A lot of times, you know, big changes, sometimes it can feel like we’re doing this alone, ⁓ but we’re not, even if it feels that way at times. And I think that’s one of the biggest lies from the enemy is that we’re alone, that we have to figure it all out ourselves, that God is tired of hearing from us. ⁓ It’s the same old song and dance and he’s really getting tired of you. ⁓ But that’s a tool that he uses to separate us from the Lord when we’re in a vulnerable place.

And so pushing back and deciding that that’s not the voice that you’re going to lean into will help provide you some comfort and peace when you’re in the midst of what’s unknown.

Jen Cudmore (38:04)
Yeah.

the last thing that I really learned about transition and how to try to handle it well and set yourself up for success is the idea of taking care of yourself. ⁓ self care is critical to change and transition. Like if you let yourself get so stressed out,

you’re not going to be able to handle the change. You need to do things that bring you joy, give you rest, know, give you peace. And so sometimes you have to be super intentional about like, my gosh, this is so heavy or, upsetting. I just need to take a break, whether it’s, running and getting a pedicure or taking an entire day away. Like know yourself, know your needs and where you need to give yourself a break and make sure that you’re doing that.

Rosalynn Lasley (38:49)
Yeah.

Jen Cudmore (39:08)
needed and you might have to get some help from your friends and family to kind of make that happen too but it’s super important that you do that don’t neglect your own health mental health emotional health spiritual physical all the things like make sure that you’re taking care of yourself because if you don’t it’ll just make transition that much harder right

Rosalynn Lasley (39:13)
Yeah.

Yeah.

And celebrate the small wins. You know, I think about, having little kids and learning to potty train. We celebrated the small wins. You know, a lot of people do like sticker charts or little candy treats and ⁓ it might seem cheesy, but as an adult, you deserve to celebrate those little wins too, as little as they are, because those little wins will ⁓ compound on one another and eventually become a big win. And I can think about ⁓ when I miscarried, I spent probably a week in bed just

you know, sad and uncomfortable. And so it was like, each time I did something different, I would kind of congratulate myself like, hey, I went to the grocery store for the first time today. Hey, I got fully dressed and fixed my hair and makeup and it made me feel good about myself today. Hey, I did this or that today. ⁓ And those little tiny wins really kept motivating me to keep trying, even if each day was a little bumpy and rough.

Jen Cudmore (39:59)
Yeah.

Yeah, that’s really good. I hadn’t thought about that either, but that’s super important. Like celebrate the little things, celebrate your wins and definitely ⁓ make a big deal about that because it’ll help.

Rosalynn Lasley (40:35)
Yeah, it does for sure.

Jen Cudmore (40:36)
As you go about your week, let’s explore the depths of these final thoughts here. where are you tending to label change as bad or scary or difficult? And how can you reframe that so that you’re not actually making the transition harder on yourself?

Rosalynn Lasley (40:49)
.

Jen Cudmore (40:52)
Where are those awkward in-between spaces from what was to what’s coming? How can you embrace that and lean in instead of resist and pull back? And then are there some things that you need to let go of? Maybe that’s the Lord is saying, you know, the old is gone, the new has come. what can you try a little bit harder to let go of?

And then what are some ways you can better handle transition when it comes? So those are some things to think about. Bless you, friend. We’ll see you next week.

Rosalynn Lasley (41:22)
Bye.