S1E9: The Generation Affect: How the 3 L’s are Influenced by Age & Culture

SHOW TRANSCRIPT:

Jennifer Cudmore (01:01)
Hey everyone, welcome back to Into the Depths podcast. I’m Jennifer and I have a wonderful guest today. I’m really excited to have Renee on the show. So let me introduce her for those people that don’t know her. So Renee is a trailblazing visionary challenging the status quo with her prophetic and apostolic ministry. As a young child, she was fascinated with the idea of reaching the nations for Jesus.

And now with decades of experience, Renee loves equipping followers of Christ in the church community and culture worldwide. She’s the founder of, founder and president of A New Now. And one of her many outreaches includes creating and hosting a popular children’s TV show where she shares the good news

and the gospel. And the show is called, It’s Yowza Time. And the viewership has reached almost six million homes. I’m so astounded by that, that’s amazing. and globally, global outreach. So Renee also hosts a weekly adult discipleship show called Next Generation and has another show, After Burn, a continuing faith conversation, which further extends her impact to the nations.

She and her husband, Jim, who is a chaplain in the Department of Corrections currently reside in Alaska. They have two children and several grandchildren. I forgot to ask you how many grandchildren. How many do you have? Okay, awesome.

Renee Duncan (02:28)
We have five. Yes.

And they’re wonderful. I love them.

Jennifer Cudmore (02:33)
Yes,

I know someone was asking me the other day when my daughter was considering having children. I was like, oh wait, I’m not quite ready for that yet. It’s going to be a very different experience. Very exciting.

Renee Duncan (02:46)
It is. If you talk to any of the grandparents, they almost always say that if they could have done it first, they would have.

Jennifer Cudmore (02:53)
That’s great. I haven’t heard that before. So I have had the privilege of calling Renee my mentor. I think it’s been about seven years, maybe a little longer if I’ve done the math correctly. I’m not sure. Does that sound right? Okay. So anyway, so that’s why I’m super excited. I’ve learned a lot from her over the years. And so I’m excited to have this discussion about lies, labels, limitations, and how she’s overcome some of that in her own life. So last week I

Renee Duncan (03:04)

2017. Yeah, so that’s not right. Yeah.

Jennifer Cudmore (03:22)
delved into some deeper explanation or descriptions of what is a lie, a label, and a limitation. And so essentially just saying it’s a false belief or a limiting belief that trips us up. so my first question is, we’ve talked on the show about blind spots and how we all have hindrances, like that Bible verse in Hebrews where the Lord talks about throwing off all that hinders. And so that can be blind spots.

We pick up things that we don’t mean to pick up and set rules over ourselves. And so I was talking to a friend of mine the other day who is a coach, a marriage coach, and she had mentioned to me that one of her clients was telling her, I don’t believe any lies. And we were kind of astounded by that. Although I have heard people say this before and it’s just got me so curious. How do people come from that perspective of

have it all figured out, like not necessarily saying that I don’t have blind spots, but blind spots, but assuming that they don’t need any counseling, they don’t need any coaching, that they know what they’re doing, that they don’t need help. So in your experience, Renee, how much are you seeing that attitude where people think that they don’t need, that they don’t really have blind spots?

Renee Duncan (04:45)
I think partly, Jen, that that has a lot to do with cultural background, as well as the age set. Because if you’re a boomer or right around that demographic, what happens is you were taught that everything remains in the home. You don’t talk about anything outside of the home, okay? And so that in of itself creates that mentality that you have to deal with everything or those around you have to deal with it. And so when you…

Jennifer Cudmore (04:49)
Okay.

Right.

Renee Duncan (05:13)
break out of that and you go to like a therapist or a psychiatrist or even a mentor something along that line it can it can really shake up those limitations that were set as a child.

Jennifer Cudmore (05:27)
Yeah, right, okay.

Renee Duncan (05:29)
I definitely see that the last three generations that we’ve had, the millennial generation, Gen Z, Gen X, and whatever the new one is going to be, that the mentality is totally different. You say everything. There’s not a limitation. And so I think that as we progress in the next several years, it’s going to be a common thing for everyone you talk to.

that they’re gonna have a therapist or someone that they dialogue with and share all of their secrets, so to speak.

Jennifer Cudmore (06:02)
I think so too. I heard somebody say the other day that we’re moving, we’re sort of moving into an age where everybody has a coach and you’ll have a coach in different areas. And I actually really liked that idea because I wish I would have had some coaching in some different areas when I was younger. So, you know, I definitely wish I would have looked into that sooner because then I wouldn’t have stayed stuck under those, you know, false assumptions.

Renee Duncan (06:23)
Yeah. Well,

some of that too, Jen, I think comes from the fact that when we shifted from being a… And I’m not against this because obviously I live a little differently with it. But when we shifted in the 60s and 70s out of having a father at work, a mom at home, the two plus one kids going to school every day,

We altered the design of family for good and for bad. And as a result, the children and the parents, their dialogue and the coaching that a parent would normally do was not done. And so what we’re seeing is we’re seeing the effects of the lack of the parental leading in the home for the children.

Jennifer Cudmore (07:09)
Okay.

Renee Duncan (07:19)
And that’s where I think that some of the breakdown has happened over the years because, know, years back in the 50s and way before that, you were started at the very early age of what was expected of you, how to deal with it, how to process and complete things. And I don’t see that happening because no fault to the parents, but both parents are usually working or there’s only one parent. So they don’t have mentality.

Jennifer Cudmore (07:19)
Okay.

Renee Duncan (07:48)
or the energy a lot of times to train their children in the way they should go.

Jennifer Cudmore (07:54)
Yeah, absolutely. I’m glad you brought that up because it’s not something that I had thought about, but it definitely does affect our outlook. Yeah, I wouldn’t have thought about the age, the age gap and then the culture changing over time. That makes so much sense. I used to think that when people said, you know, I’m not believing in lies or I don’t have

any wrong perspectives or however they would word it, that it was coming from a place of arrogance. And while I do think sometimes that does happen, people will say, you know, I’m put together. But it does, I think it comes more from ignorance, not understanding what a blind spot looks like in their own life, but also maybe from a place of like pain or shame. Like if they admit it, that there’s something wrong or that they don’t have it all together.

that it means they’re not good enough or whatever that could have been pricking inside their heart.

Renee Duncan (08:51)
think that that’s very true. I think all of that comes into play. I also believe that it’s a self-protection. Just think about it. I was working with someone the other day and they had had a recent loss and all they could think of is, don’t want to melt down. But that should have been a place, pardon me, a place where there was safety to melt. Because you have to have that ability. And I think also that

Jennifer Cudmore (08:58)
Okay, yeah.

Yeah.

Renee Duncan (09:20)
there’s an issue of pride in place, even if it is only shame. mean, even if it’s coming out of place of pain, shame, or lack of self-worth, any of those things, I think that the foundation a lot of times is a pride. We don’t want anybody to know that we don’t have it all together. Because if they do, what do I do? Are they gonna bring it back on me? Are they gonna keep a record of it? Because if you look at how culture today has

utilize electronics, all of our phones and everything, to record you in your most vulnerable place and repeat it out there. You have no control who can see it. So I think that there’s a subconscious that might be in play with a lot of people is that if I reveal this, who is going to know? Because it used to be just through gossip that somebody might find out. And now it’s the worldwide web.

Jennifer Cudmore (10:00)
Mm-hmm.

Renee Duncan (10:21)
There’s no hiding.

Jennifer Cudmore (10:21)
For sure.

Yeah, for sure. That’s a really good point. you know, are they, are they going to hold it against me and how many people are they going to tell? let’s face it, most of us don’t want our junk out there for the whole world to see, right. Our mistakes and, and yeah.

Renee Duncan (10:36)
No, no. The other thing

too, Jen, is the person that you’re talking to, they have to be able to understand that their culture, their home life culture, their growing up culture, their existing culture right now is probably seen differently than yours is. And so what’s taking place is when you’re sharing something, you’re sharing it from your viewpoint of your experiences. And if they had a negative with that, they can easily apply it

Jennifer Cudmore (11:03)
Exactly.

Renee Duncan (11:06)
to what you’re sharing and see it through the wrong lens.

Jennifer Cudmore (11:10)
Yeah, exactly. You’re exactly right. Great points. I love that you brought that up. Any more thoughts on that before I…

Renee Duncan (11:19)
Well, you know, it comes to mind as scripture talks about, if you say you have no sin, you are a liar. And I think that if we can recognize, I believe there’s wisdom that needs to come into play. You don’t share everything with everybody. You just don’t do that. It’s not wisdom. But also discernment needs to come into play for those times that you…

Jennifer Cudmore (11:26)
Yeah.

Yes.

Renee Duncan (11:42)
make a call that somebody is trustworthy to share in that way. And if you’re agreeing to meet with a coach or a mentor, which to me, I know that they’re supposed to be different, but I kind of see them pretty much the same because you’re still guiding people. You’re giving them influence to help them walk through life. But I used to tell people, make sure that when you start pointing out something that’s very important to you, that you have examined whether this person

can hear it in the way you need to say it. Before you do that.

Jennifer Cudmore (12:15)
That’s a great question.

Yeah, because when we’re speaking, we’re approaching it from our perspective. yeah, definitely wisdom to pull back and say, hey, how is this going to be received? How is this person going to hear me when I share this story? Yeah, definitely something I’ve tried to get better at.

Renee Duncan (12:29)
Yeah, I don’t think you.

Well, you know, you’re never gonna be perfect. Nobody is except me but That’s not true. I’m not perfect. Um, what do you remember? I have a habit of doing something and it’s called do you understand that? You know, I’ll say that remember when I would do that and it wasn’t coming from the place that I felt like the listener was not Intelligent it had nothing to do with thinking they were lesser better or anything. It had to do with

Jennifer Cudmore (12:40)
you

Yes.

Renee Duncan (13:01)
Am I communicating it in the way that it’s understandable? Because, you know, it’s your brain, my brain starts shooting and I start talking. So who knows what’s going to come out sometimes. But I think that’s

Jennifer Cudmore (13:05)
Mm-hmm.

And I’ve noticed

as being a manager that everyone with a different personality, I’m the kind of person that if I don’t get it, I’m going to ask a lot of questions. But there’s other people who don’t think like that and they will not consider, well, I’m not clear on that. Maybe I should pause and ask them to explain it better. So that’s something to keep in mind as well. So I think it’s a good question.

Renee Duncan (13:34)
Well, you know, to me,

I love questions, Jennifer, even if I can’t answer them, because it shows what you really need to know. I’m not assuming that you don’t know or cannot or cannot conceive. It’s all about your question gives me an understanding, which then allows me to release what possibly you may need.

Jennifer Cudmore (13:43)
Yeah.

Yes. that’s such good wisdom. I love it. I love it. Okay. I like everything you say. just soak it all up. Okay. So let’s get specific. Let’s talk a little bit about some of your own stories, your struggles and how you’ve overcome. Well, so let’s focus first on the area of family, like being a wife, being a mom. What are some of the lies or false beliefs that you struggled with and how did you overcome them?

Renee Duncan (14:01)
That’s why I love you. You like what I say.

That’s a little hard one because the older you get, the more you forget. I think that because we were in the ministry, there is a preconceived notion of how a ministry family needs to be. And so people would put a lot of expectation on you as well as everybody in the family.

And nobody was allowed to be imperfect by any shape or form because then it would give ground for people to attack, which is sad, but it’s true. It’s just, you know, get your, people call you a preacher’s kid or something like that. And when they’re doing that, they’re judging you and putting you to a higher standard that sometimes creates a problem because of their expectations that you can’t obtain.

Jennifer Cudmore (15:06)
Okay.

Yep.

Renee Duncan (15:25)
So I would say that for me, it was really hard because the conceived notion was that the pastor’s wife was just a pastor’s wife. All she did was do little things with women. She would do lots of craft with somebody. She was always there for everybody, which I attempted to do. But the reality is that’s not me. I was created differently.

I’m married to a pastor, he’s now a chaplain. I am a pastor myself, which some may not like, but it’s how God created me and called me into doing what I do. So I really had to figure out how to make the home work for our children and with the ministry. And so I think that there was probably a lot of times

Jennifer Cudmore (16:16)
Right.

Renee Duncan (16:21)
Well, I know there was a lot of criticism no matter what in those kinds of things, but you just, I honestly don’t remember specifics, Jen, but I do know that there is a lot of growth and that growth comes because at a young age, you’re trying to number one, decide who you are as an individual. You’re still in that process for years after you leave school. And so you’re trying to balance out who you are.

Jennifer Cudmore (16:31)
Okay.

Renee Duncan (16:51)
trying to engage with your children, meet their needs and your husband. And then on top of that, anywhere from 30 to several thousand people, if you’re pastoring. So I had to come to the place where what they said I had to do, I had to look at that and see, is that what God called me to do? Or is that what’s being placed on me by humanity? You know, I can do it, but am I gonna do it at

Jennifer Cudmore (17:03)
Mm-hmm.

Right?

Renee Duncan (17:20)
at the level that what God has given me would be manifested.

Jennifer Cudmore (17:26)
Yeah,

that’s good. I going to live based on the rules other people are trying to place on me or am I going to live by what I believe the Lord is calling me to? I think that’s a great question.

Renee Duncan (17:37)
Yes, and there’s times,

you know, there’s times where you just choose to do because you need to. You’re a part of the body separate from being in a pastoral family. But also, the more that I grew and had my own coaches and mentors, the more I realized that there’s some things that I was doing that even though it needed to be done, I didn’t have to do it. And I was always taught, I guess this would be one of those blind spots.

Jennifer Cudmore (17:47)
Mm-hmm.

Renee Duncan (18:05)
Growing up, my mother taught my siblings and myself that when you walk in, if there’s something that needs to do and nobody’s doing it, you just do it. It does not always go over well with people because they think of you as being arrogant. They think of you as being controlling, but really it is that you have the ability to identify if that is dealt with, it’ll make this easier and you just automatically do it. And so not thinking anything of it, both my older sister and myself, we

Jennifer Cudmore (18:14)
Yeah.

Right.

Renee Duncan (18:35)
probably created and still do some challenges when we walk into situations because we want to fix it. And that was a training that we received. so many times you don’t realize you’re offending somebody because you’re just doing what needs to be done. So I think in those areas, I’ve become more alert to that most of the time. And I attempt to…

Jennifer Cudmore (18:43)
Mm-hmm.

Renee Duncan (19:04)
navigated a little bit more gracefully, which I’m not so graceful, so not sure how successful that is. So I would say that that’s probably the, you know, and I wanted my family to do the same, but that’s not how it worked. So.

Jennifer Cudmore (19:07)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

That’s a great example. That’s not something that I would have thought about is I think that some of these false beliefs or limitations definitely are cultural and generational and that’s not something that I had considered previously is that definitely is an attitude I’ve seen in a lot of people older than me.

Renee Duncan (19:48)
I’m

Jennifer Cudmore (19:48)
The concept of

Renee Duncan (19:48)
sorry.

Jennifer Cudmore (19:52)
if you see a need, go in and take care of it. And yeah, it makes sense to be like, yeah, why wouldn’t my help be appreciated? But there are times when you do get in the way or you can cause trouble unintentionally.

Renee Duncan (20:07)
Well,

the other thing too is again with the different generations, the newer generations after the boomers, the busters, whatever, they’ve come from the standpoint it’s none of your business. And to me, it was frustrating because if I see somebody being treated wrongly, that’s an injustice. And I believe that we’re created to stop injustice when we’re believers in Christ. And

Jennifer Cudmore (20:23)
Yep.

Renee Duncan (20:36)
So to me, I want to step in and help deal with that for them. And then I had somebody would say, that’s none of your business. I’m like, well, whose business is it? If somebody is being abused that way and you do nothing, how is that right? You know, so there’s a, there’s a dual side to it.

Jennifer Cudmore (20:41)
Yeah.

For sure, yeah. Okay, so you kind of mentioned expectations of being in ministry, what outsiders often assume you have to look like or act like or whatever. But specifically for you, what about the area of being a female minister? So your husband’s a pastor, you’re a pastor, you have served on staff at churches before, what sort of…

limiting beliefs were placed on you or that you misinterpreted and brought on yourself in that capacity.

Renee Duncan (21:31)
Well, the limiting beliefs, of course, comes from

a concept that has been in churches for a long time. You have your conservative branches and then you have the evangelical Pentecostal branches, you have liberal branches. You know, they’re all different in some capacity. And so I was raised in a church that was considered very conservative in looking at women in a place of leadership in ministry.

Jennifer Cudmore (21:52)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Renee Duncan (22:04)
And my mother, again, she was our teacher, our trainer. She told us that if you’re in a place and they do not believe that you work under their covering and you do what you can and then find something separate from it that you can feel that, you know, feel the need that you feel drawing you to do ministry. So, you know, being in a

a congregation or a fellowship denomination where they do not allow women in that position is very shattering to your spirit when you know that God has spoken to you to do this. And so what I run into my whole life before I became an ordained minister is that I wanted to be around the leaders.

I wanted to hear what they were discussing. I was wanting to learn from them and I wanted to engage with them. And most of the time that meant I was the only woman in the room, which really made it difficult, you know, because then you become even more aware and they become more aware. And so to me, when they would say, you don’t belong doing this, I just, in the earlier years, I just,

Jennifer Cudmore (23:15)
Right.

Renee Duncan (23:26)
kept my mouth shut and just tried to move the way I knew God wanted me to do without breaking waters or shaking anything loose. But I’ll tell you, the older you get, the more you don’t care. You know, you’re just like, you you’ve learned certain things, you’ve seen what’s happened. And so what I have had to do over the years is really battle with my own feeling of insufficiency. Because every time that was said, it

Jennifer Cudmore (23:37)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm, okay.

Renee Duncan (23:55)
takes a chunk out of you, you know, and it causes doubt to enter you because man is a man in general, not the male female issue. Man has been saying these things, you hear it and that causes you to come under a demoralizing blanket that you walk around with.

And so what I had to do is I had to come to a conclusion that that specific blind spot of recognizing that was controlling what God wanted to control. And one of the one days somebody walked up to me and they said, I am sorry it’s taken me so long to get this point, but I finally decided that women should be doing ministry in leadership. There’s a male pastor.

Jennifer Cudmore (24:47)
Okay.

Renee Duncan (24:48)
In that moment, I just stood there and I thought, wow. And I told him, go, thank you for seeing that the God who lives in me can work through me is the same God that dwells in you. know, you are, when I feel like they’re not just placing limitations on us as a female, but there’s limitations on believing that God can utilize a female, which is funny because

Jennifer Cudmore (25:03)
Right.

Renee Duncan (25:18)
In the Bible, we see it happening multiple times, right? So it has been and continues to be, I was telling my husband the other day, I’m very blessed to be in a group of ministers that meet all the time every week. most of the time without fail, I’m the only woman. And every once in a while, they wanna talk about women in ministry. And you can see them start to squirm, you know, and…

Jennifer Cudmore (25:22)
Yeah.

Mmm.

Renee Duncan (25:46)
And it’s, I’m just going, finally one day I said, guys, I know what you’re gonna say. You know what you’re gonna say. Just talk. It’s not gonna change me being here. So I think the blind spot or the limitations is the more we hear something in whatever arena we’re walking in, where people are demeaning your ability or knowledge and action in something, it becomes the inside voice.

and we have to make sure that that inside voice is the right voice that we’re listening to and not the wrong.

Jennifer Cudmore (26:24)
Yeah, that’s great because I would imagine hearing that negativity over and over and over would be very difficult too. I I feel like if it was me, I’d be second guessing myself. God, did you really call me to this? Did you really give me these giftings and want me to use them in this way? so what were some of the tools or some of the things that worked for you to try to stay on that path that you knew the Lord had for you, even in those moments of doubt and

where people didn’t believe in you.

Renee Duncan (26:55)
Well, you know, I’d have my individual times of meltdown and I’d remind myself, why can’t they see? You know, but for basic, what I ended up continually doing is I just decided that it lies on me. Am I gonna allow it to control me or am I gonna allow it to propel me and move me forward? So I would surround myself with material that

Jennifer Cudmore (26:58)
Right.

Yes.

great question. Okay. Right.

Renee Duncan (27:22)
fed my spirit and my level of ministry with either books or audio of some type or I put myself with people that thought the same way. One of my favorite scriptures that I utilize is found in Isaiah chapter 43 verse 19 and it says, Behold I am doing a new thing. Do you not see it? Do you not perceive it? I make ways in the desert, in the wilderness and rivers.

Jennifer Cudmore (27:26)
Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Renee Duncan (27:51)
you know, in the desert. didn’t quite quote it correctly, but it’s basic thing. You know, and so I just, that’s why I called my ministry A New Now. It’s because I want to be in that place where I’m not so bound up by the past that I cannot step into the future of what God is doing. And so if I train myself to look for the opportunities that I can step into either with people or completely in moments with God,

then that allows me to continue growing and sloughing off the limitations that others put on us.

Jennifer Cudmore (28:30)
Hmm, that’s good. That’s more good wisdom. Thank you.

All right, the other area I was curious about is, you were kind of with me when I first moved into management and how scary that was for me. And you just gave me so many great tips on being in a full-time career because you had done that for so many years. So I would be curious as to what sort of lies, labels, limitations, false beliefs you encountered as an entrepreneur in the work.

I can’t remember what other jobs you’ve had, but what are some things that you encountered and overcame in the area of work or career?

Renee Duncan (29:13)
I think that there again, I mean, I am so thankful for how my mom trained us. It’s just incredible what she did and held her own business as well as did things in the church and parented four to six children. Whenever I would go into a workplace there again, because I was trained to come under who was in authority, you know, I…

Jennifer Cudmore (29:26)
Mmm.

Renee Duncan (29:41)
I have the ability to look and see usually, I have the ability to look and see the things that need to be altered in order to create more production and higher quality, you know, with certain things where they have problems, I can identify how a few things can help change it. And that’s wasn’t always accepted there again. You know, obviously I’m probably a strong character. I don’t think anybody would say that, but.

You know, so when you walk into the room, there’s no hiding type of a thing. So I think that there again, people don’t want you to rock the waters. You know, don’t rock the boat. It’s going the direction we want it to go. Everybody remain in their seat. Everybody have their own paddle and everybody will be just fine. Whereas I was trained that you go above and beyond the expectations whenever possible. You know, so

Jennifer Cudmore (30:12)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm, right.

Renee Duncan (30:37)
we would come in earlier than you would come in anywhere from 20 minutes to 15 minutes before the work schedule so that we’re ready, where now I see everybody rolling in right at the minute before if they’re lucky on time. Well, if you’re on time, you’re late. You know, that’s from me. And so there again, it made people uncomfortable because they just wanted to do what they were asked to do and no more. So I was in one business where they hired me.

Jennifer Cudmore (30:49)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Renee Duncan (31:05)
And the first thing I did when I was walked in is I was the first one in the office. So I immediately just went and made coffee. And a coworker says, why did you do that? Why wouldn’t I? Well, that’s, you know, this person does it because that’s their job. And I’m going, well, is it their job or is it just us being a partner in all of this? Well, OK. But you and then I would take coffee to my boss. I had no problem with that. I was serving him. I had that mentality.

Jennifer Cudmore (31:34)
Hmm. Wow.

Renee Duncan (31:34)
of serving. And

so then it was, why are you doing that? You’re going to make us look bad. And I’m like, I can’t help how you look. I just have to be responsible for what I’m going to do. And I want to serve them so it makes their day better, more effective, which then it comes back on me too. guess it’s, it’s hard to say what my blind spots are because there’s apparently I’m still blind.

Jennifer Cudmore (31:54)
Yeah.

You’re still blind. I love that concept of serving though. I do think that can be a little bit of a lost art, I guess. I’ve been in workplaces where definitely serving was not considered. It was, you know, get your work done and what can you do for the company and, you know, what you can do for me as the leaders or the bosses. And that is

That’s just not the way I think either. So when I became a, when I moved into management, I definitely wanted to be more of a giver than a taker. And so that is a concept that I have. I hope I’m doing okay. I guess I don’t know. I just gave my employees their review the other day and they all, they all had some feedback for me too. And it was kind of nice to hear that.

Renee Duncan (32:50)
I’m sure you are, Jen.

Jennifer Cudmore (33:00)
the nice things that they said. thought, okay, I must be doing okay as a boss.

Renee Duncan (33:05)
Well, you know, the

one thing that we have to realize, I think, is that management is different than leadership. There’s a different there’s a different direction on how you have to go. You are managing people, you’re organizing them, you’re holding their feet to the fire where someone that is in a leadership capacity, they’re trying to draw people into agreement to move forward as one.

Jennifer Cudmore (33:12)
Yep, it is.

Yep.

Renee Duncan (33:33)
And my sister is much better at management than I am.

I want to do it, but I get frustrated when somebody is continually asking, asking, asking, and not willing to change. That’s what I loved about you, Jen. You’d ask the question, but then you’d pursue change. And not everybody does that.

Jennifer Cudmore (33:47)
Mmm, yes.

That’s true. I have definitely seen that too. And that’s been a stretch for me as well because I’m definitely one of those people that I want to learn more. I want to do better. people, not everyone has that mentality. You’re absolutely right. So.

Renee Duncan (34:09)
This

is a little off track, Jen, and I’m sorry for that, but I had been thinking about it. There’s a poverty mindset that can be a blind spot and a limitation. And people do not realize that they are walking in a poverty mindset. And this, the Lord draw, I mean, I really came to face this a few years back because I realized that I always tried to tell people what I would do wrong.

Jennifer Cudmore (34:17)
Mm-hmm. For sure.

Renee Duncan (34:38)
so that they wouldn’t have a chance to tell me I would do it wrong. Because it was my method to protect myself from being hurt.

Jennifer Cudmore (34:42)
okay. Yeah.

Interesting, okay.

Renee Duncan (34:49)
That’s a poverty mindset. That you’re not good enough so you can do everything you can to try to make yourself good enough in the eyes of others. And the same thing with, you know, growing up, we had, we thought we had limited finances and it turns out they were not limited, but the only person who knew that was the father. We all gave the understanding that it was a limit.

Jennifer Cudmore (34:58)
Mm-hmm, right.

Mm-hmm.

Renee Duncan (35:20)
everything was always through that lens. So it’s only been in the last three to five years that I’ve recognized that that was a pair of glasses that needed to be taken off. Because it becomes a limitation in work, becomes a limitation in home, becomes the limitation in churches. Any position you’re in, if you’re operating in a poverty mindset, you will be under achieving that which you are capable to do.

Jennifer Cudmore (35:47)
Yeah, that’s so good. I actually don’t know very much about the poverty mindset. That’s one that I’ve been wanting to look into. One thing that the Lord has been challenging me on is the scarcity mindset, which I think is similar. And I will, I do want to do a couple episodes on that later. But I’d be curious to hear what else you have learned about the poverty mindset and how that has held you back and caused you problems.

Renee Duncan (35:59)
is the simpler.

we use terminology that we don’t even recognize as being a mindset that is negative. We think of it as being a positive. And I wish that I could just rattle off right now what some of them were, but when I was reading into it, I looked at it I’m like,

Jennifer Cudmore (36:22)
Right.

Renee Duncan (36:32)
Oh my goodness, I do this all the time. You you have a positive aspect of a phrase you say and then, but then you have the negative. It’s kind of the concept of how Satan will use truths and then throw in a lie, make you believe differently than what the truth is. And I think it’s the exact same concept that’s taken place. I wish I could just rattle off to you right now. I’m sorry, but yeah.

Jennifer Cudmore (36:36)
Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

That’s okay, no worries.

Renee Duncan (37:01)
But it’s very easy for us to do it and not recognize what that is. That it is coming from you.

Jennifer Cudmore (37:08)
Absolutely.

And I think one of the things that I was chatting about the other day with Roslyn is like, do we ever reach a point where we figure out all our blind spots and then we are able to move past them? I think probably not. I’d be curious of your thoughts on that. Okay. Yes.

Renee Duncan (37:26)
I so because if we’re always growing, then there’s always

something that needs to slough off, you know, the dead skin. And the more you mature, the more you see things that don’t belong and you need to let go of them. And that is what we’re supposed to be doing. It’s a walk out of releasing those things that are limiting and training yourself to easier, to make it easier to identify when there’s

Jennifer Cudmore (37:32)
Yeah.

Right.

Renee Duncan (37:56)
blind spot or a limitation or a false truth that is taking place in your life and being willing to confront it. Many people will shove it down because they don’t want to deal with it. They don’t know how to deal with it. They don’t know how to release it and not allow it and for a person of faith we find that in Christ but we do it.

Jennifer Cudmore (38:07)
Exactly.

Mm-hmm.

Right. A lot of times we don’t. It’s uncomfortable. can be painful sometimes, or we don’t know where to go to get the information. Yeah, there’s… Yeah, for sure.

Renee Duncan (38:28)
Or we don’t want to, because

we know it will be work. So I believe that as we grow until our body is no more,

Jennifer Cudmore (38:33)
Exactly.

All right, well do you have any final, I’m sorry, what was that? I was just gonna ask if you had any final thoughts before we wrap up.

Renee Duncan (38:42)
Here’s your story.

Nothing, I’ll move on.

would say that if you’re feeling limited then the first place to go is to God and say feel to me ask him what is it just start with one item so you don’t get overwhelmed by it and deal with the one item always be willing because when you do that it frees you up of how you look at other people and it affects how they look at you because you have changed

they automatically change how they react to you. And so I would just encourage you, don’t believe, once you recognize that there’s a limited belief, identify why it’s there, go to prayer, release it, and then make an effort to walk new, in a new way.

Jennifer Cudmore (39:44)
That is great advice. I love that. Great way to wrap up the show today, Renee. Thank you so much for being my guest. Thanks everybody for joining us here on Into the Depths podcast. There are some things for you to think about and reflect on over the next week and Thank you.

Renee Duncan (40:02)
Thank you, Jen.